Podcast Transcript
The Biohacking Superhuman Performance _Part 2
Wed, Jul 03, 2024 3:48PM • 1:41:12
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
mold, mycotoxins, building, mattresses, vocs, moldy, called, talk, musty smell, body, air, good, food, grow, grains, find, spores, day, house, sleep
SPEAKERS
Jason Earle
00:06
Welcome to longevity. I’m your host, Natalie Niddam. I’m a nutritionist a human potential and epigenetic coach. And I created this podcast to bring you the latest ways to take control of your health and longevity. We cover it all, from new technology and ancestral health practices to personalize interventions. And a very special interest of mine peptides and bio regulators. Enjoy the show.
00:31
Hey, folks, welcome back to the show. We have a tremendous episode for you today, all about the crazy, wacky world of mold. My guest is an expert, and you will hear some things that you maybe haven’t heard of before. So I found it pretty enlightening. And I’m sure that you will too. Now before we jump in, of course, I want to thank you for being here. And I’d love to encourage you if you get value from this episode, to make sure that you share it out with your friends in your network. Anybody who you feel might get some value from it. And certainly given the topic. There’s so many people talking about this these days, and maybe struggling with mold in their life. So this would be a great episode to share with them. And of course, if you have a spare moment, I would love to invite you to leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening to the podcast on, because that is how we are able to get seen and reach more people. Now. Before we jump in. Let’s thank a couple of our sponsors. Have you heard about C 15. Also called penta decanoic acid a bit of a mouthful. I know but I love saying that ever since I learned how to say it. Anyway, turns out that penta decanoic acid is an essential fatty acid that our body needs to age healthily. What’s crazy is that it is the first essential fatty acid that’s been discovered in the last 90 years. That means it flew under the radar. For the last 90 years, we had no idea we had no idea about this essential fatty acids that promotes a healthy immune system improves heart health, as well as increases metabolism. Now it turns out that it is found in trace amounts in milk fat, and what as well as in certain very specific types of fish and plants. But it’s really hard to get enough in our diet. And it turns out that all we need is one tiny little capsule every day, which is what I’ve been doing for the last few months, and you get your top of C 15. I use the supplement fatty 15. And ever since I’ve started supplementing with it, I’ve noticed a calmer mood, better sleep and even healthier skin. It helps me to get ample amounts of C 15. Really just to hit my targets. And it’s super important because why it works to counter age related breakdown, including strengthening cell membranes, keeping mitochondria working and naturally activating receptors throughout the body and brain to regulate immunity metabolism, mood, appetite and sleep. I don’t know about you but one little tiny capsule to do that is pretty impressive. All this supplement contains is a single ingredient pure penta decanoic acid seek 15 to try it for yourself shop at fatty fifteen.com forward slash net and use code NAT to save on your purchase. Now let’s talk about this episode. You want to join me as I warmly welcome back and one of my beloved guests whose fascinating life journey took him from the bustling world of Wall Street to becoming an authority on mold toxicity and environmental health. In today’s episode, Jason Earle shares his personal battles with health, stemming from childhood mixed diagnoses to his profound revelations about the effects of mold on the human body. We explore the emotional turmoil that he himself faced, as his family was so tragically affected by mold, and how he finally connected the dots between mold exposure and mental health in his world. We addressed the challenges of testing, diagnosing mold TxA toxicity, emphasizing the pitfalls of relying on certain types of tests that may lead to overdiagnosis. So you really want to check out this comprehensive guide that could be so crucial to crusade to safeguarding your health against the invisible threat of mold. Jason Earle is a man on a mission. He’s an adoring father of two boys and diapers and incurable intrapreneur and indoor Paul air quality Crusader. He is the founder and CEO of Mold Inspection Company, one 800 Got mold, and the creator of the GOP Mold Test Kit. Jason’s a dear friend of mine, and I am so thrilled to have this conversation here with him today. He has personally performed countless sick building investigations, solving many medical mysteries along the way, helping 1000s of families recover their health and peace of mind. Now to get your hands on some of the many free resources that Jason shares you or even to get your hands on the GOP mold test kits. All you have to do is go to GOP mold.com forward slash net and you’ll find everything there. Okay, one more sponsor. Before we jump in, you block out, we all know how critical quality sleep is to health performance and longevity. As sleep expert Matthew Walker says, sleep is the single most effective thing you can do to reset the health of your brain and body. Creating a sleep sanctuary is a huge piece of this puzzle. And it starts with managing light. Having a totally dark room makes a massive difference to sleep quality. 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06:26
Hey folks, just a quick reminder that all of the information presented in this podcast is for information purposes only. No medical advice, no diagnosing no treatments suggested here before you try anything that you hear about or learn about here. Make sure that you check with your medical provider. Welcome to the show. Jason Earle. It is such a pleasure to have you here today.
Jason Earle 06:50
Oh, I mean, the feeling is so mutual. I love the time we get to share. We don’t do it often enough.
06:54
I know. I know. But but the shows are coming up there. It’s happening. Right? It’s we’re moving into that time of year where we’re going to start running into each other. So how long has it been since the
07:05
first episode? Two years?
Jason Earle 07:07
Probably two years? Yeah, you were actually when I first started getting out there you were one of my first podcasts actually,
07:14
no kidding.
Jason Earle 07:17
And you and you actually really helped your feedback was was useful because I was I was pretty green and, and slow down a little, you know, like,
07:25
I remember writing you that note and I agonizing Ah, but you know, like, I don’t want to offend them. And but I really think and, and so I wrote you the note and then I just sat and then I thought he’s not even gonna answer me. He’s never gonna talk to me again. It’s gonna be and then I got the nicest note back from you. And so I that was when I’m like, yeah, no, this guy’s real deal is, and so now, we just chat whenever we can. So and I love all the work that you do, and everything that you represent in the space that you’re in, which is this crazy space around mold, mold toxicity and how it may or may not be affecting people. And really, I mean, your, you know, your nuts and bolts is testing for mold in people’s homes, that like, you know, that’s kind of like your thing. But, you know, you’re just so much more than that you’ve kind of thrown yourself into this space wholeheartedly. So, you know, maybe for people who didn’t listen to the first episode, which would be a lot, because the podcast has grown a lot since then. Maybe let’s talk a little bit about why and how you came into this because your roots do not live in the mycotoxin world.
Jason Earle 08:37
No, no, I came about this sort of accidentally. And, and you know, it’s very common in this space, in the environmental space, and for people to sort of stumble into a series of our hearts and they go, Oh, I you know, I have to share this. And or I’m so fascinated, because there’s a lot here and and I’m a very curious person, and in general. And so this is an area where there is just constantly emerging with new science and new insights. And so it really tickles that that aspect of my, my my predilection, you know, so, so I got into this basically, the short story is, when I was about four years old, I suddenly lost a lot of weight and through a period and my parents took me to the pediatrician who said you should take him to the hospital. This looks serious. And the initial diagnosis was cystic fibrosis, which was at the time at that sentence. And my father was particularly hit by this because he lost four of his cousins to CF before the age of 14. So this is their worst nightmare coming true. And they were concerned about this, you know, because it’s genetic. And so that’s part of the reason why it was initial diagnosis was because they filled out the form and they said, you know, family history and so, six weeks later, they got a second opinion which fortunately contradict that one. I actually had asthma come out of my pneumonia when they tested me for ALS Are jeez I was allergic to every single thing they tested me for. So it was grass wheat, corn, eggs, dogs, cats, cotton soybeans. And I was growing up in this little nonworking farm surrounded by grass wheat corn a ton. So I lived on inhalers and spent a lot of time outside actually, intuitively, I always feel better when I was outside, even though there was all these airborne environmental allergens. I always felt better outside. And I wanted to spend time in the basement because I had the white space down there, and it was a workshop and stuff, but I never felt good. And then when I was 12, my folks split up, which was good for everyone and moved out of that musty farmhouse, and all of my symptoms went away, and I am no longer allergic to anything. And I have not used an inhaler since I lived at 17 a formal training room. And so, so I didn’t think about it again. Well, quite frankly, there are two important things that happened. Between that. Number one is two years after I moved out, my mother died in that same house by suicide, actually, which is relevant conversation strangely. And we can dig into that we’re talking about the border. And then I was diagnosed with Lyme disease. Still not sure if I actually had it because you know, there’s a lot of questions about testing and stuff. But I do know that I got a thermonuclear dose of antibiotics which wiped up my gut, and which ultimately led me into a Keto lifestyle, because then I could get rid of the, the, the, the refined carbohydrates, which were given me like out of body experiences. So So I then I then ended up like, because of all those two, two very serious issues with Lyme disease, the least the treatment for it made me very, very sick. And my mother’s untimely death, I was forced to drop out of high school. And I ended up getting full time hours at the gas station to save money, because I was going to get my GED and psychology early. But as fate would have it, I got, I met a guy at the gas station who rescued me. And it basically recruited me to come more from on Wall Street. Yeah, in fact, if you can’t see it here, but there’s a Guinness World Record behind me ended up becoming the youngest license stockbroker in history with a Guinness World Record for total accident, total fairy tale, I was the probably the least likely in my very high performing school, 1016 years old. And I did that for nine years. And I had a really nice career. And I really love people. And so I found out that I can make 400 phone calls a day and call people, and they would send me money. And I was like, amazing. So I tend to be very persistent. So it’s
12:31
called a gift. Yeah.
Jason Earle 12:34
I like to talk right, I like to hear myself talk. So it’s just, it’s
12:40
people who with that kind of gift, it’s not just that you like to hear yourself talking to other people like to hear yourself talk. So there’s a fine line there. Because there’s lots of people who like to hear themselves talk that incites people to hang phone up. So
Jason Earle 12:55
it was it was a lot of fun. And you know, it was cool that it was that I learned a lot of the stuff that I need to learn to be able to launch a successful business, right. I was always fascinated by the companies that we raised money for. I was always fascinated by the entrepreneurs behind the companies that we were taking public. So we’re doing lots of early stage IPOs. Back then that was back when you did when the early stage IPOs existed. And so that was a lot of fun. But then one day I became disenchanted. It wasn’t really one day it was it was it was a series of things that happened that eventually I was like, you know, this is BS, and so I put 20 pounds of stuff in a backpack and I walked away, I actually owned my own firm for two years, 22 years old. And so I backpacked around for a while, took a train actually through Canada, from from New New York all the way to California, California, but through the Via Rail. So I went up and saw Winnipeg and Churchill saw the polar bears. And in Hawaii for a while. And I was reading a lot of local newspapers had a ton of time on their hands. And this one story jumped out it was about a guy who’d gotten sick from the hotel where he was an employee. And he had developed adult onset asthma and all these allergies that he never had, he blamed the mold in this hotel, it was a huge mold problem. It was a $55 million mold remediation project. That was historic still to this day, nothing has really come close to it, the Hilton Clea tower. And and so it was like my life in reverse, right. So this guy had developed adult onset asthma, all these allergies, and I had I had gotten rid of that. And so, you know, I thought geez, I wonder if we have a mold problem, not knowing anything. And you know, that that ended up leading me to getting a job when I came back from from their first like, in front of my dad, I said, You think we had a mold problem? And he’s like, Yeah, of course we have mushrooms in the basement. Why do you ask, you know, just like mushrooms or we had literally it was so wet when it rained, we had the river ran through it, you know, like we should have stocked with trout, you know, like it was just such a wet damp basement, you know, it’s like, and my mom would sometimes find snakes in the basement, you know, it’s really really wet and yeah, it was crazy. And this is New Jersey. I’m not talking about like we’re not living in like, you know, Brazil. I’m so so I ended up getting a job working for a mold remediation company actually in the sales side of things just to learn, while I earn and quickly saw that these guys were really doing more harm than good off and using chemicals instead of cleaning. There was no standard there was this is before anybody was talking about this is 22 years ago. And so so but intuitively, I realize, you know, we’re trying to get these homes healthy, and we’re using chemicals that I wouldn’t, you know, I wouldn’t spray in my house, right. And then also, they’re charging outrageous sums. And I thought, Man, I gotta do something here that to learn more. And I ended up deciding to help people at night, doing inspections for them. And I was doing it for free mostly. And I heard about a guy who had trained mold sniffing dogs, and I thought, Wow, that’s amazing. Let me see. Let me let me go down and meet them. So I ended up going down to Florida, and I met the guy who trains, mold detection dogs of all sorts, and he had just trained one of the first milk dogs ever. And of coming back to New Jersey. Here, I was the youngest licensed broker in history, and I’ve got a mold dog and my family thought I lost my mind. What you got the dog, I got the dog came back with a dog, I decided that it was just too good. I met her name was Oreo, and she was my partner for 12 years. And we first called the company lab results because we did laboratory testing, and she was a laboratory. Yeah, I thought that was very good. And so we what we immediately were besieged by by the press, they first tried to debunk us and because they counsel exactly news, actually hidden mold in the house. And we went in and instead of debunking this, we found it in like three minutes. And so we ended up getting endorsed by them, essentially. And then a bunch of local doctors started sending patients to us. And then and then we turn into Good Morning America episode, and then Extreme Makeover, Home Edition, and then the newspapers and magazines and got boxes and boxes, these things that I never had to do any advertising. And that company became one 800 Got mold. And, and then over the years, it became frustrating to me that the people who really needed the service the most were the ones who couldn’t afford it. And so that led me to create the got Mold Test Kit, which you can see over the shoulder. Yeah. And that’s the that’s the sort of my way of making a high quality testing available to everyone at an affordable price. And so I kind of was what brings me here today, so very accidental, right? And people like to call me an expert on this stuff. But man, I’ll tell you, I don’t I don’t think I may be I’m a lifelong learner. And I may know more than the average bear about this stuff. But I don’t think you can, I can call myself an expert, because there’s just too much to know. And the pieces are so fragmented. It’s a multidisciplinary field if there ever was right, one, right, because we’re talking about the building in the body, the intersection between the two. And and there’s just so much to know. So so if anything, I’m I’m a, I’m a perpetual student in this space. Yeah.
17:48
So okay, so
17:51
let’s back up a little
17:51
bit. So, you know, we fast track the journey, let’s talk about the problem. Let’s talk about this mold problem, because I think that, you know, the gift, one of the many gifts you have is not taking one answer, and running with it. And it sounds from our conversation before we even started recording today. You know, this whole issue of mold illness is, it’s it’s a big topic, there are a lot of big names in the space. And with good reason. Right? I mean, you know, you mentioned that your mom, you know, took her own life in that house. For people in the space of mold, there’s, there’s plenty of evidence that it affects people neurologically in very, very significant ways. And so, you know, for whatever else your mom might have had going on, there’s, it wouldn’t be a stretch to think that maybe her environment may have contributed to this final outcome, not to mention how sick you were as a child. So let’s, let’s talk a little bit about this whole issue of mold illness where it’s coming from and, and it seems to be getting worse, right? I mean, definitely, I know that I’ve talked to people and you know, you think, Okay, well, it’s okay, if I go live in Arizona, there’s no moisture there, there’s not going to be any mold there, I’ll be safe. Only as it turns out mold, mold being the most diverse and, and resilient of organisms on the planet. You’ve got mold, the drop grows in the dry. So there’s really no getting around that the fact that it’s around. So before I launch and ask you seven other questions in the one question, let’s start with this whole setting the landscape for mold illness and and what it’s all about?
Jason Earle 19:41
Sure. Well, I think the the first thing is that most people just sort of talk. First of all, I’m assuming that anyone listening to this recognizes the mold as a health hazard and that I don’t have to sell anyone on that right. So and by the way, I had to do that for 15 years. So this is this is the mold is only recently been accepted widely as something where, you know, the wives used to call and schedule the appointment, they’d spend 45 minutes on the phone, and then the husband would call the cancel, you know, and now the husband’s call, no one cancels, you know. So it’s just the whole default thing is shifted completely. And I think that’s thanks to Hurricane Katrina and for coastal flooding, and, you know, the big lawsuits and the fact that there’s an industry standard now, and the EPA and CDC and all the other organizations where they respect those are not in aggregate, they all have, they all say, basically say, you know, this stuff should not be growing in your home. And so there’s solidarity on that, and so, so, but then you look at, you know, typical allergic responses or the or the standard, you know, sort of garden variety, you know, upper respiratory, chronic sinusitis is is, is blamed mostly on mold, according to the Mayo Clinic, which is 37 million Americans.
20:50
And, and those are spores that take up residence in the nose, right and are protected by biofilm is that the,
Jason Earle 20:56
that’s the that’s more of when you actually have like a fungal infection. So like, just the fact that you’re you can be just the fact that your sinuses will inflame and end up trapping bacteria, which then can lead to infections and things like that. But if you have an allergic if you have an allergic fungal sinusitis, that’s a lot different than just a chronic sinusitis, where you may have just chronic inflammation in, in the sinuses. Yeah, so. So actually, infections are another common realm. They’re not as common as, as people might think. They only happen in the respiratory tract, because mold is actually aerobic. So people like to think that both colonizing in their gut when they get these tests, whether it’d be like the organic acid tests, or, or, or any of the mycotoxin panels, or even the mycotoxin, whether it be urine or blood, mold does not colonize in the gut. These are aerobic organisms. Now yeasts are different, that’s a different conversation. So mold needs air, mold needs oxygen, specifically, yeah, it is their obligate aerobes. And so, so this is this is this runs counter to a lot of narrative that you’ll find on social media and stuff like that, they these things don’t colonize in the gut, they will colonize in the lungs, in in upper respiratory, but if that happens, you’re in big trouble. This is called aspergillosis. And, and so this is this is a potentially lethal infection, generally speaking, only affecting people to have a really seriously compromised immune system. So like cancer patients, HIV, you know, people that are on drugs for RA, and things like that they can get it, which is a huge part of our population, by the way. It’s
22:25
significant. So when you when you were living in the basement, in your parents home, or you weren’t living in the basement, we were living in the house. So I have a couple of questions about that. Number one, I mean, clearly, well, not clearly, it there’s there’s a good indication that your mom was also probably affected by the mold in some way, shape, or form, maybe not the same way as you. But was your dad effect? Do you think everybody in the house was affected? And it doesn’t seem, it seems to me like not everybody was affected in the same way.
Jason Earle 22:53
That’s classic. So you know, everybody’s affected differently. If you have five people living in a moldy house, you’ll have five different symptom profiles. And what what where I was going with the whole, like the immune system, or the chronic infection side, is that even someone who is not apparently experiencing symptoms will be weakened by this, you have to think about mold like kryptonite, and it will weaken all of us. And just so happens that some of us are the canaries in the coal mine. And so there’s this curve. And so it just emits a matter of time, it will weaken us. So it’s a mold condition, even weaken your immune system, such that you can develop an infection say, so in other words, it doesn’t just happen right away, some people right away, they’re susceptible, because they’ve got, like I said, they come with a pre existing condition, but then this can create the weakness in you that allows the fungus to propagate within your respiratory tract. So this is why it’s so important to not just like, dismiss this stuff, because it will make you weak. And then it also will exacerbate other autoimmune things. So when it tends to do is bring out latent issues. So if you’ve already got a you’re already kind of leaning towards, because you’ve got maybe, you know, a high allostatic load or a toxin load for those of us who are not familiar with that term, if you’re leaning in that direction, because you’ve been living in modern construction with VOCs all your life like everyone else, and eating the wrong stuff when you were a kid, and maybe it’s still today, you know, all that stuff builds up over time, and then you end up with a big mold exposure, boom, next thing, you know, you got fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome, you know, you end up in this whole thing where, basically it was the straw that breaks the camel’s back. But it’s not just the straw that breaks the camel’s back, you know, we breathe 20,000 times a day, and we spend 90% of our time indoors. So you have to look at that as 20,000 doses. And if that air is not pristine, and by the way, there’s no neutral with air. It’s either healthy or it’s unhealthy. And almost every home in the continental United States is unhealthy because of modern building practices, because we we slather our buildings with petrochemicals, paints and finishes, and then we close them up tighter and tighter and tighter over over the years to save energy. And so this is why in my not so humble opinion, that that we have Have skyrocketing rates of asthma, allergies, autoimmune disease, cancers, autism, all that stuff. This is this is a we’re like the proverbial boiling frog. You know, it starts off slowly at first. And then we go, man, how did we get here, right? And this is all from the this the way that modern construction and energy policies and all that stuff has really set us up for what we’re experiencing. Now. It’s so this is these talks are really important because there are things you can do. And there, it’s extremely important you do it because because mold is just one, it’s the thing that is most apparent, is the thing that shows up kind of, you know, it’s the thing that smells bad, looks bad, ruin just stuff makes you acutely ill and then suddenly you take action, and then it creates awareness and you that you’ll never lose. And so for that reason, I think mold is very powerful as as in terms of like, it’s campaigning for us to make some change here. You know, it’s there may be a benevolence to this in a strange way, if you think about it, but but my so the important point, though, circling back to my mom and see this is this is something I think for everyone who’s dealing with emotional dysregulation, anxiety and depression are epidemic. And so we also know that buildings, sick buildings are epidemic. And so is there a correlation between the two? Well, 2008 Brown University did a big study 6000 participants, they asked people if they had a known mold or moisture problem. And then they asked them, How you feeling basically, like a quality of life survey. And they found a very strong correlation between mold and dampness endorsing depression very strong. And so they weren’t able to sort of pin the tail on the donkey and say, yeah, it was because of the, the, you know, that it was causal. But they did say, you know, maybe they were disempowered, maybe because they may be knowing you have a problem and you haven’t fixed it yet. Well, that’s a pretty lousy place to be because of money or you’re not in charge of your domain, or you’re renting or whatever. So subsequent to that. Dr. Joan Bennett at Rutgers University, who happens to be a good friend of mine, and she’ll be in the summer, by the way, which we’ve talked about later. She’s done some fascinating work around the microbial volatile organic compounds, the musty smell. So she had been exposed to people. She had a house down in New Orleans that got flooded during Katrina. And she, scientists went down there. She’s a fungal geneticists and mold researcher. So she threw a backpack, a sampling equipment and respirator went down to New Orleans, and she was going to sample her house and so she she took these amazing pictures. She called it a fungal Utopia when she walked in. But she had a respirator on which, which as we all know, from nit five is basically a HEPA filter from COVID, but it doesn’t remove odors. It doesn’t remove gases, okay. So this is protecting her from the spores, which are, are the, the carrier particles that mycotoxins actually travel on mycotoxins contrary to popular opinion, do not travel alone, they require a carrier particle, whether it be dust or spore or spore fragment. They are sticky substances when they’re wet, and they’re kind of crystallin. When they’re when they’re dry, but they do not. They’re not, they’re just not just spraying out. They’re not gaseous, they’re not volatile. They’re they’re not lighter than air. And so she walked in, and she started having this odor peeking, coming through, and she became ill and she had to leave several times. And she ended up cutting her her visit short because of this, this illness that she was experiencing that was caused by this very dank, musty odor. And so she, again, being a great basic scientist said What the heck is in that stuff, and went back to the literature and found very little on on on health and microbial VOCs. Very little research. So she began unpacking this and saying, Well, what’s one of the most common components and musty smell as a potpourri of volatile organic compounds for those of us who are not familiar with that term, most common voc that we’re all familiar with is alcohol. And most of us love to drink alcohol because it changes your it creates cognitive cognitive shift. Well, vocs other VOCs are things like benzene valuing the components of gasoline, we know we don’t want to drink that or hail bad. And so most of the VOCs that are that we’re exposed to in our environment are more noxious. And
29:19
like, isn’t there?
Jason Earle 29:21
Absolutely. The evaporative component of glue, right? The thing that makes it dry, is the VOC and that’s so anytime you that’s why cheap furniture is made quickly so it dries, right so the thing that dries is the VOC it’s volatile, meaning that it’s stable or liquid at one temperature and then at room temperature it becomes a gas. Well where did that gas go? It went into there. And and many of these are carcinogens. Formaldehyde is probably the most popular people everyone knows about formaldehyde or at least knows exists, but it’s also comes from actually naturally occurring sources too like wood. emits formaldehyde. And so these VOCs are, are very potent, they infect our immune system many different ways. And they primarily affect our cognition. And, and we all know that in the literature is very clear these are toxic at certain levels. And so So anyway, she went back to the lab and started parsing this out and found mushroom alcohol one, often three all and was able to order this online, which is kind of interesting. And and then began testing fruit flies with these, with this, exposing them to this mushroom alcohol and found that they stopped, they stopped reproducing, they stopped producing dopamine, they essentially became depressed, they started flying down instead of to the light, which is their natural, instinctive nature, they also develop what she characterizes Parkinsonian like symptoms, so she determines this is neurotoxic. And, and subsequent studies have found that it causes mitochondrial damage, other local motor dysfunction and things like that. And so, so this dovetails perfectly with that brand University study. And it shows that an animal studies and this is you can’t test this stuff on people, right? There’s ethical issues there. So but there’s subsequent studies have continued to confirm the neurotoxicity of the microbial volatiles. And so so now this is the problem is that there’s no test for this stuff. And there’s an air test for for it, but it’s it’s, it’s, you know, I would say it’s probably not 100% there yet, and there’s no human diagnostic test for it. And the thing is that when mold grows, all molds produce this, when they’re actively growing, and they become gasp that comes through the wall. So this is the primary exposure that people have when they have a mold problem. It’s not mycotoxins at the micro, the 100,000 species of mold, only about 100 of them produce mycotoxins and even they only produce them intermittently, and kind of begrudgingly, because it’s metabolically intensive to produce these poisons. So they don’t want to produce it. And they only produce it when they’re feeling threatened. Like when there’s competition or you know, when the environment is shifted, and they need to sort of protect their fiefdom. So So mycotoxin exposure by air is de minimis. The data on this and this is going to you know, a lot of people are going to hear this and go what are you talking about? I have a mycotoxin urine panel and I’ve got okra toxin, a and pharma toxin, I got all this stuff. Well, you’re not getting it from your air, in my opinion. And if this is not my opinion, this is shared amongst my friends who are all in the research level, on a quote on this, but the musty smell every single time you got a mold problem of significance, this producing these, these chemicals, and they’re able to permeate the walls, and they can affect you below the odor threshold through the trigeminal nerve in the face. Wow. And so this is rabid. Well, I’m going to investigate the conference next week that specializes there researchers are all about the trigeminal irritation. And this seems to be the the route that our nervous system is actually detecting these and in an evolutionarily high sensitivity level able to detect these compounds and then it triggers inflammatory responses like cytokines all through these sent the sensory nerve irritation which is within the nerve endings or in your eyes, mouth and jaw. And so a lot of people end up with with strange sensations in their face face heaps in their mouth and headaches and things like that. And that’s, that’s not mycotoxins. That’s
33:29
so that’s the VOCs. That’s the volatile organic compounds from the mold, which is not to be confused with mycotoxins not. Yeah, and it’s interesting because trigeminal neuralgia is, is like, life altering. I knew I knew a woman who actually was in school with me when I went back to school to study to be a nutritionist, and the reason why she came back to school was to see if that she could possibly find some kind of a solution for for this for this condition like it is. It’s debilitating, crippling, it’s debilitating. Yeah, that’s, that’s the right word for it. So, okay, so so when you smell mold, so when I walked into that hotel room that I was telling you about in Hawaii, and I got hit with this wall of smell, and tried to convince myself it’s fine. It’s just musty. That that nausea and headache that I lived with for a couple of days was a real thing. It’s
Jason Earle 34:24
a real thing. Yeah, common symptoms are headaches, nausea, dizziness, fatigue, difficulty concentrating, and you continue to go down that path and you have chronic exposure with this, it will shift you and many people end up with chemical sensitivities. They become sensitive to fragrances they become intolerant to other forms of VOCs which are primarily manmade, which are in abundance in our environment, so they end up being unable to go to the grocery store, to the hardware store, to be go to cocktail party or an Uber these days, which seem to all have air fresheners in them.
34:55
Oh my god, the air fresheners and Ubers. Can we talk about that for a second? Please? Can We if if you drive an Uber, stop and you have one of those doohickeys hanging off your rearview mirror, please destroy it. Like, I don’t think there’s probably a good way to destroy it, but remove it from your car. It’s like how horrible and that is. We’re not even talking about mold. Now we’re just talking about, you know, these are those air fresheners things that people plug into their wall like my mother’s finally learned, like I bought her essential oil diffusers. I’m like use these, those things need to go in the garbage because you know, this, and this is it’s such low hanging fruit. If you think about it, right. There’s entire businesses have been built on producing these VOCs that are ultimately harmful for us that I think some of them might even be endocrine disruptors. You can you can, you can correct me on that, frankly, even in perfumes, you get endocrine disruptors. I mean, I mean, God forbid, these people have to go into a department store, like I literally cannot walk through those, the fragrance department, it’s like I hold my breath. And
Jason Earle 36:06
anyway, because there’s evidence that these things actually can alter you epigenetically too. So like, odor is extremely powerful. It’s the it’s the it’s a direct route to your nervous system. And so and so you know, these things can flip all the switches in you, and you end up with all sorts of problems, not to mention the fact that they’re carcinogenic, and
36:26
well, I’m, yeah, and the odor is the result of an actual particulate matter. odor
Jason Earle 36:32
molecules actually have a shape. So when you smell feces, you’re
36:37
getting your smell. Yeah, no, you’re inhaling, you know, who first taught me that was Karen Krishnan. Way back when I did a podcast with him for the he used to be with microbiome labs. And I was sitting there going, you’re he goes, Oh, yeah, the worst place in the house for your toothbrush is in the bathroom? Yeah,
Jason Earle 36:54
no, these are these are my these are uniquely shaped molecules. And you’re getting little pieces of the very thing that you are smelling is is not yes, some. Now
37:04
it’s probably not epigenetically, altering the thing? I mean, I mean, can you expound the virtues of inhaling little bits of feces here? Because we’re not going to go there. But when it comes to, but when it comes to all these artificial scents, yes, they are, in many ways, no better than mold. Like they’re just different. Yeah,
Jason Earle 37:27
- So so the thing is that there’s also we also have a history with these things. If you think about the way we grew from caveman what, first of all, we spent 99.9% of our entire history as human beings outside, okay. And then this tiny little fraction of you know, this rounding error of time that we’ve spent in buildings has made us very, very sick, as you know, weak and sick. And so that, but the, the, our relationship with mold has always been transient. It’s always been, you’re in a moldy cave, or you’re in a building, by the way, when we first built buildings that when the wind blew the air, the wind the walls, whistling, right. And so there was natural ventilation. Also, these buildings didn’t have chemicals that that looked a lot like a lot of chemicals that are molds produced. There’s biomimicry involved or molecular mimicry, right. So our body goes, Oh, this is like this, oh, then I’m gonna respond this way. And so, so the, and we never had to deal with high concentrations of these things, like breathing in a paper bag with the same, same, you know, you do that long enough, and you’re gonna end well. So we can’t keep Riri breathing the same toxic stuff, and then expected to have a, you know, robust health profile. So, so our relationship with this has always been that when you smell something moldy, it was, that’s not edible. Right? This is this, you know, this is a visceral thing, right? The same way when you smell feces, or vomit or anything like that you’re recoil from it, right? And so and so are the interesting stuff that if you anyone who wants to look up cell danger response, that’s fascinating. And this is this is the idea that your mitochondria are respirating very, very quickly. And they are basically the canaries in the coal mine and they only have two jobs, they can either produce energy or they can produce cellular defense mechanisms, right? Yeah. So when you go from one to the other next thing, you know, you’re fatigued and if the body is trying to purge or to wait for this to go away, well, if you’re in the building that’s causing the problem, and then you become fatigued in the building, right that is this is the loop you get into and so then you end up with chronic fatigue syndrome or me or whatever, these these, you know, this paper, you know, this incredible swath of new autoimmune diseases with 100 or so, that that are usually characterized by incredible fatigue and, and and cotton with impairment. So this is this is this is cell danger response. Do doing its thing, you know?
40:01
Yeah. And so Okay, so let’s so let’s talk a little bit about transient versus Kramnik. So for me, for example, having stayed in that, I mean, it stopped smelling after two days of airing the place out. So could we, but But you earlier had said that even at sub threshold levels, meaning the mold didn’t go away, it just wasn’t, as you know, and you know, the carburetor was a huge source, whenever you went to the sink and turned on the water, there was this, like cloud of nastiness that came out of the sink. So I’d be like, like, my husband literally thought it was insane. Turn on the water and be as far away from the sink as humanly possible at the same time, which I’m sure didn’t do me that much. Good. But But, but so for some people, and even for you, for example, once you removed yourself from that situation, you recovered? Yes. Right. Like you, you you were able to your body was able to recover your immune system, which had been being like, you know, I think the best way to maybe describe what mold does and why you become weaker and more susceptible to everything else, is it’s almost like it distracts your immune system, your immune system is constantly engaged with this foe and meanwhile, all this other stuff is going on on the other side, and you can only do so much at one time.
Jason Earle 41:24
Yes, I, I use a juggler as an analogy. So ours metaphor, so your immune system is like a juggler that can juggle 1000s of processes with incredible elegance and mastery. And mold is like a guy across the room throwing baseballs at him. Oh, nice. So he’s gonna have to make a decision here. Am I gonna, myself from this evolutionary thread? Or am I going to keep just doing what I do. And so in order for to protect your time for the immune system to do its job and protect itself, it’s gonna drop a lot of balls. And and then and then it takes a while once you’ve gotten out of that environment for the for those systems to come back online. And for things to work back in synchrony, right? So. So that’s, I think what happened to me is that I was able to get out of there. And then my bottom, I was able to find equilibrium. And then those things were able to sort of, and I was also pretty, I was also pubescent. So it was, I probably was really lucky in that I left when I left. And that wasn’t, you know, so and I also spent a lot of time outside back then, you know, like I said, intuitively, I did give myself a fair amount of of space. And my house was old and well ventilated, to a degree, you know, like, my windows are almost always open as a kid. And I don’t know if that was just an intuitive thing, or if that was just the way my parents were, you know, raised because AC is expensive. And, you know, we heated our house with a woodstove. You know, like, it was salts kind
42:45
of, well, and I think kids, you know, it’s funny, I’ve always believed, and this can be a tough line to draw, but when, when a child for example, says I don’t want to drink milk. I think that in many cases, not all necessarily. But in many cases, kid knows that every time I drink that stuff, I end up bloated, and gassy, and feeling like junk. So I don’t want to drink I don’t want to drink it and how many brawls have been fought between parents and kids? Right? Like kids. And I do think kids, they may not know what it is, but they just know, I don’t feel good when I do that. And I feel good when I do this. So I want to feel good. Like they operate at a very basic rdn or yet kind of level, right? But pretty black and white about that stuff, which is, you know, understanding where to knowing that we need to trust them sometimes is can be tricky, because how do you know if they’re just not being difficult, but anyway, that’s a whole different topic. I want to get back to so we talk about VOCs VOCs are the airborne particles. They’re not the mycotoxins when you go airborne chemicals, airborne chemicals, sorry, spores
Jason Earle 43:54
are particles. And the VOCs are gases that are emitted by the moment scent molecules actually have a shape and they say, I wouldn’t I don’t know that you could call it gets sent molecule. I don’t know that we could call it a a particle. You know, I’m going to a conference on scent, taste and trigeminal irritation next week. And I’m going to hanging out with a lot of people that talk about scent. And I’m going to have them clarify that for me, because,
44:23
well, I think that for scent, it has to hit receptors, right? It has to bind to a receptor to elicit response somehow. It may be itty bitty, but it’s gotten to it somehow. And I would think it’s it’s it’s a it’s a thing.
Jason Earle 44:37
It’s a molecule. It’s a molecule. Yeah. So
44:40
so when we again when we were talking before the podcast, you were talking about mycotoxins and all the different testing that people do around mycotoxin. So one of the things that you said is that mycotoxins are obligate anaerobes I mean, Arab Arabs, which means they must have oxygen to survive is that molds are obligate aerobes molds are obligate arrows. What about our mycotoxins?
Jason Earle 45:04
So the way toxins are a byproduct?
45:07
Direct metabolite on it. Yeah, yeah. So, but you were talking about how mycotoxins won’t. Like, they don’t get picked up, they shouldn’t be able to be picked up in urine or in blood. Is that what you said? Or am I’m not.
Jason Earle 45:20
So what happens is, so mycotoxins if you look at the the petri dish that Dr. Alexander Fleming looked at when he discovered penicillin, okay, you can learn so much about this just by looking at that dish. Okay, so when I give talks, I always put up a picture of this dish. And so for any of us who have not seen that or don’t remember from eighth grade science class, so So what you had there was a Petri dish growing streptococcus strep the bacteria that causes strep throat and he had gone out to lunch he was a very sloppy scientist notoriously sloppy scientists and he left the cover off the dish and and he also had the window open right and and so not that you would need to have the window open because these the Penicillium spores are on normal common background. In fact, if you take a breath right now, you’re breathing in Penicillium, and you’re also bringing break breathing in Aspergillus without any ill effect in most cases, unless you have a severe allergy or, or a compromised immune system. And, and so this, a Penicillium spore land, landed on the dish. And colonized and, and then, and then, because it was landed, landed on the dish full of bacteria, it began oozing out the mycotoxin, which we know of as penicillin, and it did that to protect its fiefdom and wanted to eat the Agere the sweet juice in the dish. And so it created a little moat around it. And Dr. Alexander Fleming Scottish scientists called it mold juice, I can almost hear him saying that that was his that was his version. That was his first scientific, mica docs, mycotoxins. And so anyway, that was later, you know, extracted and so with, with a couple of other much less solid, sloppy scientists, commercialized into penicillin, but when you look at that dish, you can you can see how mycotoxins actually behave or how the organism behaves. It doesn’t spray them out, it doesn’t care about the air, it’s not trying to kill anyone or anything. It just wants to protect its food. So it oozes out around the perimeter of the colony, so it can just give it some elbow room, you know, let me eat my stuff here, leave me alone. And it’s a competitive tool for them. Right. And so, so if if air if mycotoxins became airborne, just spewing out like through walls and everything else, the way people think, which is not true, that whole dish would be clear. The whole thing would be clear, instead of just had a little border around it. And so now how does that become airborne you disturb it and since then, those the spores and the hyphal fragments, which are little roots, and the, the the sort of the feelers of the of the malkani become airborne. And yes, if there are very high spore counts in a building, and the mold has produced mycotoxins, and again, only about 100 of the species that are known and describe the science actually produce them in any in any significance, then and you breed them yes, you will have some exposure to some mycotoxins, but they this does not square up the amount that found in air samples does not square up with the amount that people are excreted in urine samples. So there’s a real problem there. And a real problem
48:46
so if you’re so if you’re peeing, if you’re taking a test and it’s coming out in your urine it’s not likely to be coming from your house. What you and Amina I’m gonna say it now I mean, I’m gonna say because you told me just so you know, guys, I’m not that smart. I didn’t know this. Most likely it’s coming from something that you’re eating or drinking the or ingesting. That’s the only way through it to get inside you. That’s right. It’s not coming from the so how does so how does the how do you test for mold in and we’ll talk about the food ones in a minute but how do what is the test for from for mold toxicity from your home? Well,
Jason Earle 49:28
so this is this is the problem with the space right now. And this is why the mycotoxin urine panels are being misused is because there is a gap there’s a gap in the marketplace. There is there if your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail and also there’s a lot of confirmation bias on this. The dot you know the people that are treating these Oh, well it looks like it multiplexes any man. You may you may, but it’s I would argue that it’s not as simple as what’s going on in your home. It may very well be your home and your diet and we’ll talk about that. Fight that a little bit. But wouldn’t
49:58
the strains of mold But they’re picking up tell them where they’re coming from.
Jason Earle 50:01
Yeah. And that’s why that’s the first thing that that that gave me this insight. And by the way, I just interviewed Dr. Mark Villa de, who’s director of integrative and functional medicine at Amon clinic. And he’s the one who got great plains to create the mycotoxin urine panel in the first place. He’s not very outspoken about the fact that they should stop using it. Kidding, not kidding. Because so he’s the one who started it. And he’s the one saying stop it. Because it’s being misused. It’s being misinterpreted, badly, and to the detriment of almost everybody who’s being treated for this. Because yes, you should not be eating this stuff in any great quantity of what we all are, because we’ve got a contaminated food supply. And again, we’ll unpack that more for people. But but the the problem is, is that on the in terms of buildings, there, you know, you’ve got my test, which tests for spores. But that helps you know whether or not you’ve got an airborne mold problem. If you have mold on a wall, usually, they’ll manifest as a musty smell. And again, we talked about how the trigeminal nerve will pick this up and then send you send a inflammatory cascade into your system, and then that looks a lot like toxicity and probably has more inflammation, and it may not necessary and you could also be toxic. And this could be the thing that just triggers that is the thing that the straw that breaks the camel’s back, right. And so you know, these things show up and look like a bit, you know, oftentimes people experiencing inflammation and toxicity and allergies all at the same time. And so, you know, the whole body becomes completely overwhelmed with this. And that’s why it’s that juggler again, you know, the balls being thrown at him. And so, so when you start looking at whether you test the building for it, you know, what you have to do is engage your senses and become familiar with your building. This is what I always encourage people to do is not rely on a test that you swab or a pour up or an air sample, or completely you have to look at, does the building have a history of water damage? Is there any sort of known mold or moisture problem? Is there a musty odor, even if it’s just a little whiff here and there, find the source of that, because the trigeminal nerve is sensitive below the inertia threshold. So if you’re picking it up by scent, you’re absolutely picking it up in your nervous system. And so then once you become sensitized, and that’s when the pendulum has swung over or that the needle has moved over, then, then you’re going to be able to be your that real canary in the coal mine, you’ll walk into a building and go, I can’t be in here, because there’s mold, not that those people are not crazy. They are very, very, they’re finely tuned instruments that don’t know how to handle the output, or how to handle the signal, if you will. And so, so this is this is a big deal. And there are treatments for this, by the way, you know, the primal trust and the DNRs. And these, these neural retraining, tools, wonders for bringing that back down to earth. But in the meantime, what do you do to test your home? Well, you have to start looking at the building as an extension of your immune system, like an excess skin or an exoskeleton. And you have to become familiar with the building the way you want to become familiar with your body. If you listen to the aches and pains of your body. When you have inflammation you treat that when the building has aches and pains, it shows up as the musty smell. It shows up as as as you know, moisture problems really is when the building gets sick. And so you know you I can go down that rabbit hole with you, which is fascinating. The building as a body, the building of the body metaphor. This is not something that that the metaphor plays all the way through, by the way.
53:14
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55:07
Well, you know, it’s interesting, I moved into a new house last summer. And I had in the in this house in the basement, there’s a room that’s not insulated that they were using as a cantina. And they were making their own wine. And there were shelves, wooden shelves in the cantina that were visibly rotting. And I couldn’t go near that room, like I couldn’t go near it because it smelled so moldy. And it just so happens that I had that I had been sent an air filter, one of those air filter units, and whenever you open the door to the room that led to the cantina, that air filter would go bonkers, it would turn red, it would amp up it’s like it literally it was the first time I’ve actually seen evidence that these these air filters actually do anything. And we ended up having to we tore out the wood, we had all the wood torn out. And then I’m going to ask you, if what we did was good or bad. The the contractor said, what you need to do is there’s this special paint that you can paint over the concrete to seal the walls because I’m like, There’s no way that just taking the woods and not like concrete can grow mold to or mold can grow on concrete too. But the air filter has been really happy ever since.
Jason Earle 56:30
So there’s a bunch of stuff there. First of all, the air filters that have sensors in them are really kind of remarkable. They, it depends on whether it’s testing, whether it’s sensing particles or gases or sometimes both. Like the Jasper unit, Jasper, those are, you know, my,
56:46
I haven’t met him for I’m recording with him in two minutes. One
Jason Earle 56:50
of the ways he’s a good buddy and can be a hack your health also. But he’s a wonderful guy, and he’s got a great machine. And actually, you know, our kitchen exhaust fan. Here I am an indoor air quality guy. And my kitchen exhaust fan does not go outside. And so it’s a real problem for me, because it’s bad news. I feel like I’m like a like a hypocrite and
57:12
not a hypocrite, you know, it’s a problem, you’ll fix it.
Jason Earle 57:16
It’s a challenge for me, because it’s, it’s a big deal. And so, so anyway, that thing saved my butt. Because it senses when I’m cooking bacon or whatever I mean it it picks it up, if I’m grilling outside, and I opened my door, a little walk comes in, and it kicks on and so, so depends on whether sensing the particles or the VOCs. And but they are remarkable and can be very, very, very useful. The, the thing that about paints is that you paint paint itself is actually a food source. So if you put paint on a wet surface, it may have an antimicrobial in it in when you first apply it, but those usually dissipate unless it’s something like zinc, which actually doesn’t dissipate, right, it
57:59
was a special paint and nobody was allowed near there for about I think they gave me a period of time and I doubled it. But I think it was in and of itself was toxic.
Jason Earle 58:09
Yeah. And that’s the thing is that oftentimes you’re adding a voc laden chemical into a place where we’re trying to really minimize the VOCs. So my suggestion to people is don’t ever paint concrete, mold actually won’t grow on concrete, it will grow on paint on concrete, eventually, so, so just keep an eye on that and, and, and resist temptation to to apply another coat. If anything, what we ended up having people do is they ended up having a wire brushed off in some cases, they use like matte sandblasting, but something called dry ice blasting to remove it. So if you just keep an eye on something that you’ll want to pay attention to. So
58:46
don’t paint the concrete if there’s an issue so we should have just left the concrete bear
Jason Earle 58:51
should just have to bear it Yeah, the wood itself it’s good that you remove that because that was obviously a resin what they call a reservoir which is what holds colonies of growth. And so removing that was was was wise and then the thing to do in an environment like that is accept the fact that concrete is wet by by concrete is a reluctant lover of water it will pull moisture from the soil that it’s touching on the outside it brings in and then and then it exhales the water to the essentially dries pulling water from the soil into the air. And so the thing to do is to mechanically remove it with a dehumidifier and or to air conditioning that space so that it was which is you know, air conditioning is a dehumidification tool. So, okay,
59:37
all right, let’s keep going. So mycotoxin so the urine mycotoxin tests are not telling people what they think it’s, it’s telling them that so let’s let’s talk about the testing that people are doing now because I think people are grasping at straws, right especially when they’re dealing with situations like cell dangerous response, or mast cell activity. ations syndrome like all of these issues where you know that at a cellular level, the body’s gone to high alert, it’s become highly reactive to a million different things. All of a sudden, you get things like Epstein Barr Virus or lime or whatever that’s being re reignited. I don’t think that’s the right word. Um, there’s another word I’m looking for. But let’s use that for now. It’s, it’s, it’s been latent. And now all of a sudden, it’s expressing again, and you mentioned that for yourself. So where should people be looking? What should they be doing? And what’s the right testing that you know of right now that that would give them a better idea? And what is that mycotoxin in the urine or the blood really signifying?
Jason Earle 1:00:41
Yeah, well, so let’s, let’s first of all, first of all, kind of clarify. So since since mycotoxin, via inhalation is is a very, very rare circumstance, usually, it’s an occupational exposure. So if you’re like a farmer, and you’re moving moldy, and my cousin, my, my, my little brother is a farmer, and so he was playing or playing with his daughter and, and a thing of corn, you know, like, notoriously moldy, and they got sick. And I said, buddy, you know, like, you know, better, you know, I’m not going to tell you, you know, what, you what you don’t want to hear hear, but you know, don’t do that again, you know, and so that’s an occupational hazard. And so you know, there’s something called farmers longing. There’s something called brewers lungs. So people who who actually make beer, of course, there’s lots of exposure issues with that. So but in a modern building, you’re not going to be getting unless you have really high spore counts, and you’ve got a black wall, I mean, a black wall, then you’re probably not going to have any kind of exposures that people are attributing to these panels, these urine panels, were even the blood panels that are basically just antibody panels, not even actually finding the toxins in your bloodstream is antibody to it. So you’ve been exposed to it, okay, big deal, doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re harboring it. And so and by the way, Dr. Mark Hill today tested itself five times in a row five days in a row and took a food log and had a completely different readings every single time. So it’s, it’s it’s transient stuff, this is this is not something this is this is very, very misunderstood, and the data is being very badly interpreted. So now, here’s the thing. So if you want to figure out whether or not if you want to parse this primary symptoms for musty smell from mold exposure, almost, if you have a water damage issue, or are you going to slowly and that manifests and into an exposure, it’s going to present as a cognitive impairment. It’s going to present headaches, nausea, dizziness, fatigue, difficulty concentrating, emotional dysregulation, brain fog, elite, sleep disorders, brain fog, great night terrors, things like that. Right? So it’s mostly up here. And but then what most people talk about when they’re talking about their motion sickness, is they got a lot of people talking about their gut or other system, other other organ system issues. And I feel strongly Dr. Phil, that I then I talked about this at length, is it that’s likely from the food based exposures, and that’s what’s manifesting as the in the mycotoxin panels, right? So if you can create increases intestinal permeability, and you know, it’s these things are hepatotoxic and they’re, they’re mutagenic meaning of cancerous or cancer causing, and they are, they’re just they disrupt them. They we know this to be true from veterinary science, like I said earlier, you know, in the veteran, the the data on on how mycotoxins impact mammals, is very well understood through through veterinary science. And, and so and it’s all food based exposures. Not all, but that’s, that’s getting moldy grains, right. And that’s one of the reasons why eating conventional meats and dairy is so horrible for like, if you don’t have enough reason to not eat that stuff. Listen closely, okay, those animals are being fed moldy grains, not just grains that they shouldn’t be eating and also glyphosate and all that other stuff. But the moldy stuff and we that stuff is lipophilic, which means it gets stuck in the fat cells. And it’s also hydrophobic, which means that it doesn’t excrete well. Okay, so you can’t excrete it. And it’s heat resistant on top of it. You can’t cook this stuff out. Okay. Oh, you’re
1:04:25
kidding. So what are the worst foods so grains, obviously, corn,
Jason Earle 1:04:31
corn is a non food. You know, corn doesn’t, but you know, any grains? Not Well, unfortunately, they can be washed. But of course, who washes their nuts and seeds and you
1:04:42
soak mine, like I would soak them and then dehydrate them to within an inch of their lives.
Jason Earle 1:04:48
And that we’ll get rid of a lot of it, uh, berries that are over 10 days old. The numbers go like this. And by the way, we’re ordering them from Peru. Guess what, they didn’t show up yesterday. They weren’t harvested yesterday. You know?
1:04:59
So if you heard about As treatment for berries, I’ve done this and it’s actually is remarkable how well it works where you take one part apple cider vinegar to 10 parts water, and you wash your berries in it and it actually seems to kill the spores. And then the berries last, you know, raspberries are the voiced, right? If you even managed to get them home from the grocery store to your point, they’re coming from somewhere far, far away the molds been growing. And you can get the first two berries off the top and then there’s fuzz right underneath them. But actually, the if when you wash them in that solution, it actually works. I’ve had them dry out instead of go moldy in my fridge instead. Yeah,
Jason Earle 1:05:41
no, I haven’t done I wash my various pretty pretty quickly when they get home. But I’m going to try the vinegar solution that you can you can wash so quinoa, oats, things like this. You know, if you watch t ma, which you should do anyway, because of the grid itself and that you can use the data shows that you can get 50% or more than mycotoxins off if they’re if
1:06:04
they have that’s 50% that’s not listening to
Jason Earle 1:06:07
the bad news here is that you’re not going to avoid this stuff not in our system unless you’re eating completely ready for this local seasonal fresh vegetables. Okay, and by the way, you’re not going to get mold on vegetables on the greens especially, it’s just not it’s not it’s not local, seasonal, fresh. And then you’re going to eat you know, try to eat domestic grains if you can, so like lumbered rice and things like that even then wash very carefully. And then you know, by the way, this is a no sugar, no grains. This is this is the Keto. This is the Keto credo, right, no sugar, no grains, local seasonal grass fed pastured meats, right. If you do that, and by the way, this is good is a good idea anyway, for a lot of reasons, I don’t need to tell you. But But that is the recipe for for getting your diet clean of mycotoxins. Also, you’re getting rid of the pesticides, you’re getting rid of the hormones, you’re getting rid of all the unnecessary stuff. And then you’re also happened to as a side effect, you also happen to be reducing exposure to these very, very potent chemicals.
1:07:05
That’s really interesting, because that could account for a lot of people who have these transformative health benefits from going keto. They’re attributing everything to going keto, and you’ve got to wonder how much of it also is from just cutting out this the sources of mold, especially
Jason Earle 1:07:23
the grains and stuff. So like the group of food scientists took a look, the UN used to say that the UN used to say that 25% of foodstuffs were contaminated with mycotoxins and a group of food scientists looked at this and said, Where’d you get the data? And they said, well, we don’t really have a good floor. So they said, Okay, we’re gonna, we’re going to we’re going to call BS on this, and we’re going to do a study. So they did and they and they found that the numbers were much lower actually are more like 10 or 12% at the at the port of X to export the place where the origin Thank you. And but they found that they were much higher at the port of destination and between 60 and 80%, I believe that and then we also found that most of the samples contained, on average, 10 mycotoxins, not just the 60 to 80% of them are contaminated. They contain nearly a dozen different different ones. And these things amplify each other too. So you know, the, the body is not designed to be dealing with this onslaught. In wars, yeah. So you have to and by the way, Europe, if you when they cross border with food, they test for lots of different stuff in the EU, and the number two reason for food to be rejected is, is mycotoxins. Number one is bacteria. And so when they, when they rejected at the port, guess what they did, they send it to us. They do, we will accept food.
1:08:57
So it will continue to grow all the things it’s growing, because by the way, it doesn’t stop just keeps going for
Jason Earle 1:09:03
30 days on on an unconditioned vessel, you know, after all that, right, so you take something that’s already kind of cooked, and then you know, it’s already paid that’s already compromised. And then and then put it on on a shipping container for 30 days. And then and then go get it processed, and then it’s gonna go sit in another bin somewhere. And so so this is this is a public service announcement, stop eating that crap. You know, this is the process brains are poison for so many metabolically, but also literally, literally. And then, of course, you know, if it’s not organic, it’s just forget about it. I mean, it’s just like,
1:09:37
it’s GMO, and it’s been sprayed, and the whole nine yards. And so but there is like, I mean, you can go I know in Canada, and I’m sure in the States, I mean, look for those, for those people who insist that grains can be part of their diet and I’m, I don’t want to have that debate right now. I mean, I think there are people who probably can eat from some grains and be fine with it. There are you got A farm you can find locally grown, at least where where I live. And in many places like and a lot of these guys, it’s interesting. They’re growing kind of heritage strains of grain, right. So like red fife we have here, which is a very, very hardy nutty kind of wheat. That’s quite different. And so it hasn’t been sitting on containerships. And it’s small production, and it’s stupid, expensive. So the good news is, it’ll probably hopefully stop you from over consuming. Because that’s the problem. That’s another big, big problem with it. But but there are ways around this. So what about what about things like? And so I want to, I want to leave people not with like this sense of despair, I’d like to leave them with some tools here. So let’s say you’re looking at an apple and it’s gotten like, like a piece of fruit because sugar feeds mold, right? So and even a carrot can feed and can grow mold. Is it enough to cut them all the moldy bread off? Or is there are there like, you know, it’s like mushrooms have these have any? And what about mushrooms? Like are mushrooms? Should we be eating mushrooms in the first place? Because
Jason Earle 1:11:18
they mold? Yeah, well, this whole normal diet, don’t eat, don’t eat mushrooms is nonsense. It fresh mushrooms. Treat them respectfully storing them in a paper bag in the fridge. You know, if you see mold on them, don’t eat them cut off, cut off the stuff that’s not good. Also use a little mushroom brush and get the excess debris off of them. But mushrooms in general are a good source of you know, a very healthy, you know,
1:11:45
ya know, they can be for sure. So what about fruits and vegetables and fruit? I mean, you said vegetables generally don’t grow more. But anything can grow more at the end of the day, if it’s been damp and sitting around
Jason Earle 1:11:54
fresh, right? So you get a good fresh produce and can eat it while it’s fresh. If you see stuff that’s compromised, you cut that stuff off. Yeah, but if it’s gone, it’s gone. But you know, but by the way, you know, also hides and things like mycotoxins are hidden things like applesauce and tomato sauce. Why? Because at the farm, the stuff that’s not good, they go pump it throw that away, right? Well, sometimes it’s not gone all the way, but it’s just kind of the ugliest. And so that’s so you know, if you want to make applesauce, if you want applesauce, you know, it’s usually and listen, I listen, I’ve had little kids, I don’t have time to make applesauce, we try to buy the highest quality possible applesauce that we can. And also my kids eat grains, you know, I try to eat very few because it doesn’t grow with me and I, you know, I blow up like a tick. So I prefer not to do that. And enemy like weight wise, I don’t metabolize carbs, you know, in a very unfortunate way. And so, my so I avoid that by by local, or at least by domestic you know, chemo for example, which you can buy from South America, you can buy from, you know, the kind of United States. And so rice and things like that I try to, you know, keep it to a minimum, but I also you know, their kids and they eat and stuff and so so you just have to be judicious and to your point, there’s a lot of heritage products that you can go so but but fresh is the key. And and you know if you see there, you know, if you see mole on cheese, for example, a hard cheese, you can cut that off, soft, Cheez Its, or you throw it away
1:13:21
at home. What about fermented foods? Okay, it’s not on that. Because yeah,
Jason Earle 1:13:28
well, they so this is bad news for a lot of people, Kombucha is a bad idea. Because there’s all sorts of nasty, you know, they find lots of microbes that are in kombucha that you really don’t want to protests and stuff like that. So this is not well regulated. It’s not regulated at all. And so generally speaking, it’s probably good to stay away. And a lot of people don’t do well with it anyway, they think that should be good. And if they think they don’t tolerate it, well, there’s
1:13:53
another issue, right? Like, they’re very high histamine. So that’s another reason. But, yes,
Jason Earle 1:13:58
but in general, it’s really, really good for you. To
1:14:02
say, like, from a from a traditional perspective, from a human history point of view, it’s historically how humans have processed foods to make them healthier. Yes.
Jason Earle 1:14:12
And so fermented foods are powerful. If you can tolerate you know, the underlying, for example, a lot of people can’t do kimchi, because if cabbage, but you know, but but if you can tolerate the underlying element, whether it be dairy, or cabbage, or whatever, you know, a lot of times the fermentation actually fixes the thing that causes the intolerance to the dairy. Right. So this can actually be a route toward developing tolerances. In fact, you know, then Joel Greene talks about that, right? So you know, if you want to if you want to get rid of dairy intolerance, well, then you you take the bacteria that eats the dairy and you become colonized with that, and so you work towards cooperation instead of, you know, opposition, and I and I wholeheartedly agree with that philosophy when it comes to to nature in general and food, you know, we need to stop fighting nature, so I’m trying to kill it. In that conversation we could have about mold about we don’t need
1:14:56
and it’ll fight back.
Jason Earle 1:14:58
That’s all stuff bacteria, you know, it, we are we’re ill equipped to fight with nature, we should learn how to cooperate with it.
1:15:06
And grossly outnumbered by the way
Jason Earle 1:15:11
we have done with our tools aren’t as good and you know we there’s a whole bunch of reasons we can over
1:15:15
complicate stuff they’re very simple. Survive, right? So, number.
Jason Earle 1:15:20
So
1:15:21
so we have so we have so So the takeaway from the episode, there’s a couple of takeaways from the episode and I definitely want you know, like we’ve had a lot of different conversations here. But So the takeaways from the episode is, yes, your home can be a source of mold that is compromising your ability to be healthy if it’s not outright making you sick. And so if you most likely you can smell it, but if you but it is it can still be there, even if you can’t smell it. So what you’re looking for is any moisture, humidity, sort of visible and or invisible, but like sort of like places that that stay wet and have been wet. And that’s going to be and that’s where, you know, we haven’t talked about it much. But you know, Jason’s got this great little at home kit, you can set it up in a room, it’ll sample the air just like you know the expensive guys do. You take that little cassette out of there, you throw it in an envelope, mail it back to him, they’ll analyze it and tell you what they find. But the other takeaway is, if you’re testing for mycotoxins in your pee and your and your serum and they’re showing up, then the odds are that where you really need to look is your diet. And that’s it’s probably foods that you’re eating and I will say that I did a mycotoxin test last year. And here’s something really interesting that popped up was I was I came up with positive for for a mold or microbe something that grows on Apple peels specifically, I don’t need apples. But guess what I had been doing this this gut reset using apple peel powder and I was using organic apple peel powder. But I had recently opened my cottage I think I had an open bag that had stayed at the cottage over the winter of this apple peel powder. It didn’t smell bad. I started using it again. And most likely it had started growing things
Jason Earle 1:17:17
lost me on the apples honestly because you know I don’t eat apples but no but the apple peel powder so that so what I’m saying is during the harvest Oh yeah, no. Yeah. Apples while there we even while they’re growing even while they’re actually still on the on the tree and you’re not if they’re organic, that means they haven’t been hit with any pesticides or fungicides and so they’re more likely in fact, Dr. Phil today says watch out for organic peanut butter because they haven’t been hit with fungicides and he’s just so you know, you use the taps and you want the aflatoxin from the
1:17:47
peanut butter or the fungicide
Jason Earle 1:17:49
so you don’t know where in that process it could be literally at the farm it could be while they’re sitting in in wait while while they’re during the actual processing themselves if you know or it could have been that the batch itself in powder form by the way that’s pre digested so if that if that was mishandled in any way during that during the while it’s in powder form. You know you could have a lot there but yeah, so you’ll see and by the way those panels like for example okra toxin A or even vomit toxin which shows up as d o n. This is this is a this is a this this stuff is produced by fusarium I have been I have tested 1000s of homes. I’ve never once seen a fusarium infestation and a home and and so I the reason I testing for it, looking for the I’m looking for all this stuff and but you’re seeing fusarium fusarium grows on corn, and it grows on wheat and things like that. And so you know, these these things are common from grains. And again, they roll up to us because if people say I don’t eat the grains, but you’re eating, are you eating organic? Are you absolutely eating grass fed pastured meat every single time because the chicken that’s being fed the moldy corn and the cow that’s being fed corn which they don’t eat in nature, and the pigs are fed whatever the farmer can’t feed the other animals, you know? So like that stuff. We are at the top of the food chain just like mercury rolls up so to the mycotoxins and so but if you ask the people that run the labs of the mycotoxin panel labs, they will tell you that it is not food. And and but the data I mean, I can give you I can show you a stack this high of of studies from food scientists that absolutely emphatically tell you that mycotoxins and food are a problem. I mean, I can load you up to the point where you will never finish reading them. Yet you cannot find one. Not one study showing that inhalation is a primary source of exposure to mycotoxins now wow.
1:19:48
Okay, well there you go guys, if you needed impetus to avoid or at least cut back on grains and you know corn chips, got how many corn chip bags my husband and my son go through, sir. I mean, you know, they’re organic, non GMO the whole nine yards, but you know, it’s still smushed up corn. And you know, nobody’s running around picking out little blue fuzzy kernels out of the cobs and or making commercial corn chips like it’s just not a thing.
Jason Earle 1:20:17
I will I will say this though the binders the people take yes so let’s talk about that if you take the if you time that well you don’t take them around the time you take medications and supplements and you know, these binders of course you have to be careful these are things are not you just don’t just start chugging down binders all the time, it’s best to do that. Somewhat judiciously. But but you know, they do help to move things through things like you know, first of all, stop this madness. First of all, remediation is about remedy. So I’m talking about remediating your diet, you can remediate your building, and your meeting diet. So I look at this as air food and attitude. If you want to get better air, food and attitude air, you got to eliminate the mold and moisture problems in your building. And then you’ve got to remove the stuff that’s actually got this harboring this growth, you got to get rid of the chemicals, stop using renovate, stop using chemical base building materials, and ventilate well and use air filters. Okay, that’s air, hyper simplified, very, very concise, then food, okay, so you know, or local, seasonal, organic, fresh produce, and grass fed pastured meats and dairy exclusively, okay. And so, and then attitude, this is a little bit it may sound dismissive, but you’re getting people’s nervous system straight, is often a big deal. So, you know, giving yourself the body, firstly, you have to believe you’re gonna get better to get better, I’ve never seen anything get better it’s getting it gets better, that doesn’t think they can. So fear is the big enemy, if you want to do a detox, start with fear, and get right with the fact that mold is a normal part of our environment, and you’re never gonna get away from that, you can’t be afraid of mold and then get better from it, you have to accept this as a part of our environment, and then you have to do that. So there’s a lot of tools, like I said, primal trust is amazing. I mean, the work that Dr. Kathlyn King is doing is something that everyone should look at, if they’re dealing with any sort of emotional dysregulation, and an experiencing sort of hopelessness when it comes to this, it’s a big deal. And so and so you, you know, this is this is a Venn diagram, overlap, and you can’t miss any of if you don’t do the air, and you don’t do the food and you don’t do the attitude, then the results will will be lackluster. But if you follow those things, you know, and this all came from me being sick from from, from from from being in a moldy building. But but but this is this is a holistic view, right? And you can’t ignore the fact that our building is an extension of our immune system. And we need to you need to make the investments, you need to take the time to maintain it well. And the same way you try to maintain your body maintain your building, and because it will pay dividends and it’s a it’s a symbiotic relationship we have with our buildings. And and so it’s not just the building. It’s also the pantry. And then okay, I
1:23:00
have another question. I have a couple more questions with you. With you, before I let you go. I want to talk about mattresses, because this is a question that came from one of my community members, that was who was literally driving themselves insane. Looking for an mattress that won’t go moldy. And you know, people don’t pointed them to latex, and they’re like, no latex will go moldy. And this and that next thing, you know, they’re trying to wrap their mattress in a rubber cover. And I’m like, well, that’s not going to work. You’re just sealing everything in there. It’s it’s going to keep losing whatever it is. So I want to ask you about mattresses, I want to ask you about if we had a conversation offline, we’re not going to name names, but building remediation and how it’s going way offline, because it’s getting fed by these tests that are telling you something is coming from your building that maybe it’s not, and, you know, maybe helping people to understand when to draw lines because people are going broke remediating buildings either improperly or that don’t need to be remediated to that degree. So let’s start with the mattresses, then the building remediation. And then we’re going to talk a little bit about your upcoming event that you’re hosting this fall, which I think is so exciting, mainly because of who you’re inviting to it. So start with it. Do you know anything about mattresses and pillows like we spend, like we spend all this time on our mattresses and pillows?
Jason Earle 1:24:25
Yeah. Well, so first of all mattress the main issue there is flame retardants, quite frankly and so thankfully, a lot of brands have emerged that have answered that Casper was the first one to really take take hold and, and and then and then there’s also you know, the VOCs from you know, these are all made with plastics and glues and stuff like that it’s gross. And then there’s also evidence that the spring based mattress is actually like antennas for EMF and
1:24:58
I have a I have a latex So I mean, I have and this is a brand I’ve talked about on the podcast, I have an essential, which I freaking love. And if anybody ever told me that it was unhealthy, my heart would be broken because I’ve never slept as well as when I sleep on that thing so
Jason Earle 1:25:12
well, so I think any any of the mattresses or if especially if they, they take great pains to avoid the flame retardants, and be sure that they’re taking great pains to avoid other things. Some of the, some of the latex materials can have VOCs. And so and I am not an expert on the mattresses, although I’ve done a pretty deep dive for my own. And so we have a Casper mattress. I’ve always, and I have always felt much better on their mattress than I do when I’m standing elsewhere. But avocado and Lisa and there’s there’s a whole bunch of brands out there that are essentially, a lot of those
1:25:50
are are pretty affordable, essentially not being one of the affordable ones to be clear, and I spent a lot of money on my sencha. But so you know, I’m, I’d be devastated. If somebody told me, I actually just got a pillow. Also, did you heard about the company called env? No. So they make their pillows out of natural latex, some kind of natural latex, and they actually infuse the pillow in the pillowcase with copper. Oh, wow. Which is antimicrobial. So that’s another kind of option. So
Jason Earle 1:26:21
when it comes to the molar mattresses, you know, I find that that really comes down to humidity control in the building. Right. So yeah. So if you’re if you’ve got if you’re in a space that you’re not, you’re not humidifier, dehumidifier properly. And so this happens a lot in places like San Diego where people think they don’t need to run an air conditioner, because it’s cool, what’s cool and damp. And so oftentimes, they’ll find that they’ve got a match. So get yourself a good humidity gauge your bed and try to keep it around 45%. And that means that you may have to either get a dehumidifier or run your air conditioning when you don’t necessarily want to. And if you don’t have air conditioning, well then you need to deal with that. So you can go back to source. And yeah, these mattress the mattress covers that the there’s a I think it’s clear brands makes a mattress cover that, that it’s basically made of the same material that I want to say Gortex air Mattress Encasements Yeah. And so what’s nice about them is that they could clean rest, yeah, so clean. So and I don’t have any financial relationship with these guys. And so they’re waterproof, and also but they breathe. And so you know, they’re porous, just like cortex. And so it allows for, for the air to also in case the allergens and the big thing about mattresses and pillows, by the way is more than mold. It’s actually dust mites, because they really love the material, they love the same environment then they kind of go into animation and when we go when we go to sleep and you know and then they they they they nosh on mold spores and so their fecal pellets are extremely allergens. So when you look at them under the microscope, you see that no one read a really interesting book, never home alone by Rob Dunn act, I tell everybody about this, it’s all about the critters that we live with. And it will teach you to learn to tolerate this because we don’t want to live in a sterile environment. And we don’t want to live in an environment that doesn’t have nature in nature, the absence of nature’s was caused so many of these problems, you know, are the root word of human as humans, which means soil. So we’ve disconnected ourselves wholesale from this and then I forgot the really the underlying problem that we’re experiencing as humans on a on a human animals on a planet, but we’re separated from this from our source. So So yeah, mattresses, mattresses, mattresses. Yeah. So basically moisture control. And also don’t know what heads on beds, no wet towels on beds. These are the things so shower, don’t go to bed with a wet head. If you want to keep your your your your pillow healthy. Make sure you go to bed with a with a dry with dry hair.
1:29:11
That’s a perfect that’s a good idea. Plus, you won’t wake up with that crazy bedhead in the morning. That is always should should you have to run out of the house in a hurry and people will think you’re completely insane because your hair standing on it. Okay, so then the end very quickly, because we’ve been going for a long time here, remediation companies. So So I think and I think the root of that is just to say that, watch what you’re testing for what they’re finding and what they’re telling you because if you know start with is this from food, because it’s too easy to be convinced that it’s from your building and to get led down a garden path and spend. What is it like six figures remediating a building that actually is not solving your problem? Well,
Jason Earle 1:29:55
first of all it when you get a quote from someone or remediation contractor for six figures, You may be, you may be dealing with the wrong people. And people tend to say, well, they’re the real guys. And they’ve got all these endorsements and all that stuff. And there’s a quote, there’s a group out there that does a really, really good job of marketing like this. And they’re causing, they’re leaving behind a wake of destruction, quite frankly. And so it all begins with a well intended practitioner, presumably, that gives you mycotoxin your panel and he doesn’t understand how the data is supposed to be interpreted or, or whatever the case may be. But anyway, they then recommend you to an inspector, and then inspector wants to charge six or $8,000, they may say, Oh, well, we’ll start small. But then next thing, you know, they’re using swaps, swaps are always positive. And then we’re using Urmi, or something called the EPA 36, which is just a different brand of Urmi. That’s no longer so if you Google, the US, epa 36. That’s the same species that ErmI and ErmI as a dust test for those of us. And that does test is developed, developed by the EPA, supposedly, but it wasn’t was developed by a staffer at the EPA. And it was used for EPA studies. And it was developed based on three mold found in 32 homes in Ohio 20 years ago. And it’s a very outdated research tool that should not be used. And EPA even says do not use it. So Google, if you’re curious about this ErmI er MI, EPA should I use it, and it will tell you, the EPA will say do not use it. So my suggestion is, do not use it. And anyone who’s who’s working with who’s suggesting that you do, do not use them, because they will lead you down a rabbit hole because they’re always positive, they’re scary positive. And then they will leverage that into a very expensive remediation protocol, which includes in many cases, these people ripping out HVAC systems perfectly good HVAC systems, which I’ve never had to do in 21 years. And I fixed a lot of sick homes in the last two decades. And I’ve never once had to rip out an HVAC system. I’ve recommended that they upgrade. But I’ve never had a ductwork and all that kind of stuff. And so and oftentimes these people are not even getting getting better afterwards, because their primary exposure was probably food. Now, I’m not saying the moldy buildings are not a problem I said, I’m saying it’s an overlapping issue. And these things can impact each other. But but but you have to recognize that garbage in garbage out if you have a date data, that if you got a food test mycotoxin fan on Sunday is high, you make sure that you’re fixing your diet, if you’ve got a musty smell, and you’ve got a cognitive impairment, all those kinds of things and do the do the detective work and find the moisture source in the building and stop that cleanup them all. Get yourself some good air purifiers, ventilate your building, monitor your moisture, right so like get humidity gauges and keep it in the Goldilocks zone between 40 and 60%. And by the way, I should also mention this is a really good opportunity for me to plug our ebook. And this is an I and I say that because it’s free. And it’s not a sales if there’s nothing sell here. And we’re gonna put it on your welcome page, which is got mold.com/nath and it’s 46 pages of inspection checklists, and, and FAQs. And it’s just we get a lot of really good feedback about this, if you follow this book and just go through your house and do an inspection kind of like giving yourself a physical, right like give yourself a mole check. You know, you’re doing mold, check for your house. So do give your building a physical and go through and look for the signs look for signs of moisture, look for the water bugs, look for the spiders which are which by the way need water to. And they’re eating the critters that grow from the little ones that are that are partying on the little bit of moisture that they can detect microscopically write that off, pull the carpet away from the corner of your basement, your finished basement and see if you’ve got moldy tack
